Here’s an interesting article on the resurgence of the medieval sword as a martial arts weapon.
I think the medieval cruciform one-handers were the zenith of fighting sword designs, but that’s an issue you can’t debate on Internet martial arts forums. It’s a universal law that any discussion thread with the word “sword” in the title doesn’t go five posts without some katana fanboy butting in and sharing stories about how his father/brother/buddy has this real Japanese samurai katana he brought back from some monastery on Honshu, how it’s made of steel that’s been folded two thousand times, and how it once “sliced a Claymore blade clean in half” while sparring on a challenge.
Katanas had to be folded repeatedly because the steel they had at the time sucked.
The best blade is the one you are trained and most comfortable with.
I have had some practice in Kendo, and Iaido, and am most comfortable with a Katana … but I would have difficulty dealing with someone who has more years of practice in with any other similar length blade.
Arguing about which blade is “best”, without considering context is ludicrous.
Arguing about swords in such a fashion is useless. It’s the guy using it, just like it’s the guy in the fight, not the style, that wins.
There are tales, of course possibly apocryphal, about Musashi deliberately using a piece of wood to disarm Samurai that thought their katanas were superior to all other personal combat weapons.
And, I once saw a college fencing instructor disarm not one but two guys with bokken. Not Katanas but still. It’s about the man.
Personally, I’ve always had a special place in my heart for the basket handled broadsword.
A one-handed blade allows the other hand to hold something else, like a shield! The idea of a shield was very uncool according to Samurai culture, but me thinks a shield can be very useful of you’re fighting an enemy that doesn’t share your Bushido values, like the Mongols, who have no problem raining down arrows on you from a distance.
I’m glad that western martial traditions are gaining popularity, Western civ. needs more minerals right now, but unfortunately the silly Katana fanboys are going to be the same kind of people gearing up for these classes.
Have some reading.
My father really does have a katana from Japan. I have no idea how he came by it, but it dates back to WWII and has an ivory handle. I don’t really care what it will cut; it’s too much of an heirloom to do anything with it.
Either way, people working with swords is ok, but not quite truly defensive. You can’t conceal a sword, and using one is still bringing a knife to a gunfight. I’ll stick with my guns, thanks.
Phil, you’re not a Katana fanboy. Family Heirlooms are treasures. My family went through two periods of shedding possessions, once when making the crossing to America, and again making the continental crossing to California. I was amazed at the heirlooms the cousins had in the old country; all our stuff is 1946+.
As for the real Katana fanboys, as long as we’re having a serious conversation about what swords can do in capable hands, what was the name of Prince Valiant’s sword?
One point I would be inclined to make about swords as a defensive weapon is that once you learn to strike and throw combos, many items of about the same length and mass as a sword will do the trick. Things like bits of rebar, pipes, an axe handle etc. all spring to mind. Not that I would want to use those instead of a gun, but in a pinch, I would be really glad I could throw 5 well placed and powerful shots with 2 feet of blunt object.
I might also point out that full contact martial arts are probably worth taking, whether they are armored combat or judo. I have known a lot of people who do a lot of training, but since they never get used to the idea of having to solve a problem with violence, they choke up when not in a controlled environment.
My father’s gun club does a “live action” sort of thing where they give you an airsoft gun and a face mask, then set up a scenario inside the range. You don’t know what is going to happen going in, you are just given instructions such as “you are taking your wife shopping.” Lalalala then HOLY CRAP stuff happens. In this case it was her walking into a robbery while you waited outside. Two guys were after her with clubs and knives, while a third was in the back with a gun. Personally, I tagged the two on her quite well, before taking one in the gut from the guy I didn’t even notice was there in the confusion. Three targets, less than 20 feet from me. I am fairly certain I could put a round in each within 3-4 seconds in just about any situation, except an unknown, “real life” situation I discovered. My father, a far superior shooter than I, got the gun man, then the others, though he conceded mom wouldn’t have been to happy about his order of operations. Still, it took both of us some 20 minutes to calm down fully.
The point of that rambling story is that I think there is definitely something to be said for being in situations, even mocked up situations, where you face considerable surprise and discomfort if you do not perform as part of a training program. Having too much control over a training situation probably makes you more likely to freeze in panic when action is called for.
Katanas? Feh. Kiddie crap. Me & this guy I know once used a cuttin’ torch to burn a big ol’ sword out of some old diamond-plate steel, and then we went at it with a grinder and some old files until it was looking SWEET, and then Jimbo down the block said to lay it on his BBQ smoker for a few hours, and he built this slammin’ fire and basted the blade with some old Castrol mixed with some axle grease. Oh, and some Deep Woods Off ’cause he said it made it proof against skeeters and chiggers.
Then, when the blade was cherry red, he went to his freezer and pulled out a quart jug of pig’s blood he’d been saving for some sausage, but Jimbo allowed it’d be better used for this. So, he runs this frozen block of blood over that blade, doin’ something he called “kryo-hemo-tempering”. It kinda give that blade a sorta sideways bend to it, but Jimbo said it’d fit better in a sheath like that.
Then, Jimbo hooked up this big ol’ green laser he bought offa some science nerd and shined it on the blade, and said he was makin’ a monimoleckular edge that would cut through damn near anythin’.
I dunno about anythin’, but it walloped the hell out of Jimbo’s porch rail. And his Weber grill. And his lawn table umbrella. Jimbo ought not be drinkin’ and playin’ with swords…
*SNerK* Sorry, couldn’t type with a straight face anymore… If you want to impress the fanboys, go all out!
My katana’s a $50 Philipino import. It’s a prop more than real weapon.
(On the other hand, my gladius, that could ruin someone’s day.)
Stupid fanboys.
Prince Valiant wielded the “Singing Sword.”
And on my DVR, I have a show recorded that compares two katana, one made the traditional way, and one made using modern steel and methods. The final result was that they were pretty equivalent, and the traditional folding method was to compensate for the poor-quality steel, as mentioned above.
There was another show I saw (don’t remember if I have that one on DVR or not) that compared a katana with several other swords. The katana came out on top for cutting through things because of its cross-sectional shape. Depending on circumstances, another sword may be better for fighting with, but a katana will be the best for cutting through things.
The Katana is probably the best slashing sword out there, but I do like the idea of having a shield on the battlefield, in which case the Celtic Leaf Blade becomes super-functional as well as cool looking.
For general carry where a sword isn’t practical a good Bowie knife is tough to beat.
Gladius for me, please. Fencing with foil and sabre was fun at Uni, but that was really more a dance, than actually poking holes in people. Don’t know enough about longer swords to use ‘em competently. I’ll just go for the thing with two edges, a point, and small enough that I’m not going to trip over it (cutting my own foot off), get it lost in someone’s spinal bones, and I can do something else with my off-hand.
It’s a big pointy thing. It’ll do me until I get ’round to learning something fancier.
Ahem: http://www.coldsteel.com/swords.html
No Gladii (that’s plural for gladius, peasants) unfortunately.
Is this interests anyone, I suggest you buy Christian Tobler’s book, “Fighting with the German Longsword.” Then, snatch up anything Ewart Oakeshott ever wrote. “The Archaeology of Weapons,” “Sword in the Age of Chivalry,” and “Sword in Hand” are the best books. Hmmmm… maybe strike that order and reverse it. Oakeshott, then Tobler.
I should add that, though Cold Steel makes decent swords, there are better alternatives. I’ll make a sales pitch for http://angustrimswords.net/home.html and http://www.albion-swords.com/. There ARE gladii at the last site.
Oh, crap. Forgot another Oakeshott book, “Records of the Medieval Sword.” Probably his best too.
Wheels:
You can have both, good steel and traditional folding … this gentleman ( Howard Clark ) is starting with modern steel, and then using it as fodder for a traditionally made Katana.
His 1086 swords are fantastic … I was present when one was used to halve a small anvil after an Obukan practice session in Beaverton OR … the blade survived, the anvil did not ( BTW, cutting anvils will void your warranty … heh ).
http://www.bugei.com/category_2.htm
Please do not construe this as fanboyism … a gladius or a broadsword made by similar methods would be just as useful …
Among the swords I own are a couple of Badger Blades – one of them they were sorry to see leave the shop (but it fit my hand *so well* and had such nice balance) – they had been using it as a demonstrator to hack away at an anvil.
Good, bad, I’m the guy with the katana?
Nah.
Oh, and re: the katana’s cutting power. I have my doubts about anything a TV show “proves.” To paraphrase Mark Twain, when one finds oneself in agreement with a TV show, it is time to pause and reflect. Mythbusters, for example, tested some sword myths. They picked up an “okay” katana but their western swords were fake junk.
[...] With Marko, who opines that “the medieval cruciform one-handers were the zenith of fighting sword designs”. [...]
I am a novice at German Swordsmanship. However, I do have keen knowledge on swordsmanship. Katanas are never folded more than 20 times. The folds are meant to distribute carbon evenly and to get rid of impurities. The reason why you see katanas with millions of layers of steel is because every fold doubles the amount of layers in the previous fold. However, the Japanese did not invent this method since cultures with low access to good iron ore would need to make a good blade out of poor quality metal.
European swords were not “clubs with edges,” they were generally between 2-6 pounds with razor-sharp edges. The katana myths are only galvionized by anime/magna, and fight shows who only want cheap ratings. A katana cannot slice through rocks, thick trees, or other swords.