You know, regardless of which sock puppet wins the upcoming election, there’s one thing I’m going to appreciate about a new President:
I’ve read that kind of stuff so many times over the years that I’ve managed to lose count of all the incidents where Not-So-Curious George behaved in ways that were utterly inappropriate for the occasion. Sneaking up on German Chancellor Angela Merkel and giving her an univited shoulder rub, constantly referring to other heads of state as “guys” and “fellas”, or that endearing Dubya habit of using belittling diminutives for anyone he considers lower in rank (a psychological mechanism used to assert dominance, and a very enlightening glimpse into his personality), it looks like the most powerful country in the world is led by Bluto from Animal House.
I’d like my President to have a little more decorum and sense of appropriateness and boundaries, thank you very much.
This is the guy who managed to get Queen Elizabeth II riled up enough with his manners that she told him the affairs of the Royal Family were “none of your business”. (He claimed to be the black sheep of the Bush family, and then asked the freakin’ Queen of the United Kingdom, “Who’s yours?” Jesus H. Christ on a pogo stick, George, this is not some blue-haired lady sitting next to you at the Podunk County Church Barbecue.)
Joking aside, there’s a certain quality that’s indispensable in a leader: the ability to read people, gauge situations, figure out context, and understand social conventions–not just within your own society, but also within other cultures. Our current President has spent the last seven and a half years demonstrating that he does not have, does not need, and does not want that quality.
53 Comments
July 16, 2008 at 6:51 am
*facepalm*
I do, indeed, feel your pain. At a time when we desperately needed a President, we got a putz. The worst of it is, I’m not even surprised.
*sigh*
July 16, 2008 at 7:32 am
Not to excuse any previous foolishness on the President’s part (and there certainly has been a lot) but in this case, given the nature of the summit, I would have been content with “You guys are morons; I’m out!” while giving a double one finger salute Nixon style. Seriously, a summit to reduce emmissions… we shouldn’t even be showing up to that sort of thing.
Besides, being questioned by Italy on the virtue of our government is a laughable situation. Maybe next Chavez can accuse Bush of being a dictator.
July 16, 2008 at 7:44 am
First, I would vote for, contribute to, and probably volunteer for a Blutarsky for President campaign.
Secondly, fiddlesticks. The responsibility of the president is to advance the interests of the nation, not to kowtow to obscure foreign anachronisms like queens and whatnot. If W can achieve his diplomatic goals (and, he has), then why should I care if he has done so via frat-boy hazing?
In fact, I prefer that the President keep the other, less significant national leaders in their place, by whatever vulgar and humiliating methods necessary. They damn well should remember who has subsidized their national security and secured the open seas for the last half a century.
If you can’t stand the ass-slapping, stay out of the G8, that’s what I say.
Fuck royalty.
July 16, 2008 at 8:06 am
pdb,
if obnoxious Uncle George comes over to formal family events to insult the hosts and make an ass out of himself, does that mean he’s putting the rest of the family “in their place”? Does it mean that he’s achieved his goals?
You can actually *hurt* the interests of the nation if you alienate people by acting like a boor…much like you wouldn’t break out the good wine for obnoxious Uncle George.
July 16, 2008 at 8:20 am
If obnoxious Uncle George foots the bills for all the freeloading hippies at the formal family events, then he can act towards them however the hell he pleases.
Fortunately, W gets along fine with the leaders that matter, like, fer instance, the current and former PMs of the UK and Japan.
July 16, 2008 at 9:24 am
Since when did showing deference to the fucking House of Windsor become part of the job requirement?
I’ve got news for you, if you’re an American, Liz is just another bluehair. And a weak-chinned welfare recipient at that.
July 16, 2008 at 9:26 am
Manners =/= Deference.
Of course, I could be off-base here. Maybe accepting an invitation to someone else’s pad, and showing respect to your host (the old blue-haired welfare tart) is really a sign of weakness. Sycophantic grovelling, if you will.
July 16, 2008 at 9:34 am
The more I re-read this post, the more I wonder how familiar with American history anyone is anymore. Do schools ever require reading any American fiction or essays written from 1790 to about 1895 anymore? It was considered unAmerican to salute another country’s flag almost to the end of the 19th Century, and showing any manner of deference to any European “nobility”? Un-fricking-thinkable.
Coolidge would have fallen asleep at the G8 summit. Reagan would have threatened to bomb someone. Jackson would have challenged Putin to a duel by now, but it’s oh-so-hyper-goddam trendy, such a mark of intellectualism, to go “zomg bush is teh worst preznit EVAR”!
Save me from the historical illiterates, please, Vishnu.
July 16, 2008 at 9:37 am
Oh, PUH-leeeeeze. Since when is asking someone if they have a black sheep in their family “Bad Manners”? You’re reaching, bro.
July 16, 2008 at 9:41 am
Yeah, that’s me. Historically illiterate, and hyper-trendy. I’ll file that assessment in the appropriate receptacle.
I didn’t write anything about him being “teh worst preznit EVAR”. I wrote about my opinion that he acts like a fratboy and an uncultured lout at diplomatic events. That is my opinion, and it’s not open to debate.
Now, you can either tell me that in your opinion, he’s not an uncultured lout, or you can tell me that it doesn’t matter that he is. However, you don’t get to call me historically illiterate and a hyper-trendy pseudo-intellectualist, at least not on this turf.
July 16, 2008 at 10:18 am
Dude, srsly, out of all the legitimate gripes with Just Another Big Government Liberal George, this is the best you can come up with? Please.
From Jimmy to the Gipper to Bubba to Dubya, my entire life has been filled with “You’re not going to believe what that hick ‘Murrican preznit did when meeting with his betters!”
I expect more from you.
July 16, 2008 at 10:20 am
PS: Go back and read that comment of mine again, carefully and for context. I’m not the one trying to shove your foot into the shoe.
July 16, 2008 at 10:29 am
“the freakin’ Queen of the United Kingdom”…
Meh. Not so impressed with inbred welfare recipients.
July 16, 2008 at 11:40 am
What I’m getting out of Marko’s post is that I don’t think it is a matter more not of what he says, but how he says it.
I don’t think anyone would have a problem with George telling another leader off, but the expectation is to do it with style and polish. George’s language skills will never be on the level with Churchill or others known for witty repartee but does anyone have a problem with what he says?
I think in some aspects George’s language serves America well; it reminds folks that we don’t have to toady up to anyone. Should we have good manners, yes but that in the long run isn’t as important as getting the job done.
As others have said, the President’s job is to look after America. I think that is what we should rate the president on, not his elocution.
July 16, 2008 at 11:40 am
Marko…
Your post was excellent. I read it early this morning and thought to myself “can’t wait to see the beating his commenters give him.” Sure enough, just as I thought.
I would be ashamed and embarrassed if a child of mine acted as he did in a formal setting. He is doing harm to our country’s image at a time when we could use a little help in that arena.
Thanks for your well written post. Your final paragraph hit the nail on the head with great precision.
July 16, 2008 at 11:47 am
To “pdb”…
Do you ever wonder why so much of the world dislikes America and wishes harm upon us? The residents of other countries certainly don’t feel that their leaders are “less significant”, their country is “less significant”, or that *they* are “less significant”. Even though the US is the biggest superpower of this century, we are still just one of many great countries and we need to treat (most of) the others with respect.
July 16, 2008 at 12:02 pm
although…it never hurts to be polite. “Manners make the man” and all that…
July 16, 2008 at 12:02 pm
Reading between the lines on that article I suspect he’d been treated to hours of “the world is ending because you greedy stupid Americans are driving too many SUVs” – I’d have prolly snapped to. Not the politest thing in the world, but well – people are people, and I’m willing to give a man subjected to the amount of unearned ridicule as GWB a fair amount of leeway when it comes to to poking back now and again.
To the issue of the Queen? Tam’s history is right on – it’s long been an American tradition to treat those with fancified hereditary titles as” just folks.” There’s a *reason* we make people leave those kind of things at the door when they come into this country.
So yeah, put me in the camp of “out of all the legitimate gripes with Just Another Big Government Liberal George, this is the best you can come up with?”
For all his failings, impatience with pomp and circumstance ain’t one of ‘em.
July 16, 2008 at 1:25 pm
mw, in this case you are the embarrassment…and if this is what drove you offline, you’re also a pussy, i wouldn’t have thunk it…
jtc
July 16, 2008 at 2:32 pm
Oooookay, now. This is just ridiculous.
I’ll just step up and say that I’m with Marko on the idea that leaders of countries should respect the titles of the leaders of other countries while on their turf or on neutral ground. However arbitrary those leaders (whether their clout is all in their title, or whatever), some of them still have a huge influence on dealings with other countries, and if you insult them, you may screw up chances of dealing with them politely in the future. It’s England, folks – we’re not looking to insult them and bomb the shit out of them, they were present at a meeting that we (I’m referring to countries, here) also were, and presumably, we were both present for similar reasons.
I don’t give a shit what was considered patriotic historically – I know those facts, and I appreciate them, but another thing that folks have lost touch with (and I’m going to also say that I think teh intarwebs are another culprit here) is MANNERS. And guess what? The “leader of the free world”, being someone who has to frequently give first impressions of our country for the good of trade and whatnot, NEEDS to be polite. And asking the Queen of England who the black sheep is in her family is not polite. Period. End of story.
On the other hand, I do think GW is giving those other G8 Summit “leaders” a lesson in not taking themselves too seriously. His comment at the end of the meeting wasn’t directed at any one person, and it was a self-deprecating joke (as the thing with the Queen started out), so they just need to let it go.
And JTC, I do believe your little comment was slightly uncalled for.
July 16, 2008 at 3:02 pm
Squeaky – if he had say, thrown himself down on the sofa, and crossed his big ol’ boots on the table in the midst of fine china I’d agree with you. Manners are important, surely. But the man was simply joking (in good humor, best I can tell, and not vulgarly) with another important so-and-so. That’s not rude… but it’s not *deferential* either. And honestly, I expect and prefer the public face of our nation to address others without a deferential nod to the idea of monarchy.
“I think the king is but a man, as I am: the violet smells to him as it doth to me…” and all that.
Not being deferential is *not* the same thing as being rude.
Further, compared to the BIG policy problems I have with GWB – this is small potatoes. There’s plenty of times for a pile-on. I just don’t see this as one of them.
Finally, in defense of Marko – if this is creating a distraction and a frustration to your family, absolutely take some time off. You’re a smart cookie, and even when I don’t agree (the minority of the time, certainly) you generally make your case well, and you’re a delight to read.
But family does come first. Have a great break, and hope to read you again soon.
May the Invisible Pink Unicorn fill your home with laughter.
Thanks for the writings.
July 16, 2008 at 3:22 pm
I think there is part of Marko’s point that all the small potatoes commenters are missing. Sure this is a small issue, but it’s one that’s actually going to change with a new president. The big issues of ever increasing government encroachment on freedom aren’t. Neither of our choices have made any indication of changing that. Sure the rhetoric used to sell it to the masses will be different between McCain and Obama, but the inexorable growth of the state will continue either way.
I’m sad to see you stop blogging, but obviously your family and sanity come first. I’m also sad to see the lack of civility in the comments, and I’m afraid this might cost me two daily reads and not just one.
July 16, 2008 at 3:29 pm
Jenny – At least you stated your opinion in a civil manner. I wouldn’t care if people disagreed with Marko if they weren’t being assholes about it. I mean, speaking of rude…heh.
July 16, 2008 at 3:52 pm
“Diplomacy is the art of letting someone else get your way.”
I’m with Marko, GWB lacks diplomacy and manners. And here is the thing folks, it isn’t how GWB acts among the world leaders that bugs me nearly as much as how he acts when the cameras are rolling.
Like it or not, our fortunes rise and fall to a varying degree with how the rest of world regards us. Sometimes we need to stomp some petty dictator into goo, and sometimes we need to talk the gun out of his hand. The mark of a good diplomat is knowing when each is called for.
Sorry to see you go Marko, but you are right. Enjoy your time off and find your peace.
July 16, 2008 at 4:31 pm
[...] to the munchkin wrangler, who, now that I’ve discovered his blog, has decided to take a hiaitus. I completely [...]
July 16, 2008 at 7:07 pm
Marko –
Usually I agree with you and in this instance I think you may have been right. I think W did ok but there is much to be said about knowing the audience and how to act to get what you want out of them. I think W could use a bit more polish but he is all we had to vote for so we have to deal with that. I fear we will look back at what he did and say he was really good compared to the next one = (
I understand your needing a break and family should always come first. I will miss the blog as I always found your blog to be well thought out. It was also nice to see the opinion of some one that did not grow up here as it related to politics. It was nice to see the different view and I think it helped me to understand the outside worlds view of us a bit better.
Best of luck and I hope you decided to come back at some point. . .
July 16, 2008 at 7:44 pm
I get uncomfortable around frat boys that act like frat boys (driving force behind the reason I don’t hang around them). I always did think that etiquette was important.
Damn shame it had to go this far.
I hope that the air clears up sooner rather than later.
Take it easy, sir.
tweaker
July 16, 2008 at 7:59 pm
Closing legs during photo ops with world leaders would be a great improvement. Talk about embarassing. He’s been ‘out there’ for all to see and we’ve seen all he’s got.
July 16, 2008 at 9:16 pm
Wow! Cheque-iddowt!! Doo-ling ‘lectrons!!
I do so love a well written and publicly aired internecine snit!
After all, we’re all just one big happy family glumph!
Think I’ll go make my navel sing…
July 16, 2008 at 9:24 pm
I agree with pdb, the Royal Family is no more special than any other family, but yes they are “world leaders” (technically). And Bush is representing us, so it would be nice if he’d behave himself like an adult. Or at least goddamn learn how to say “nuclear” if he likes war so damn much.
July 16, 2008 at 11:41 pm
[IHateItWhenMom&DadFight]
July 17, 2008 at 7:53 am
*hides under the bed with Matt*
July 17, 2008 at 8:11 am
Marko;
You. Will. Be. Missed.
OTOH, I must humbly disagree. Not on the point of W’s behavior — it’s execrable and cringe-making. But not for the reasons you put forth.
No. The reason W’s behavior sucks is that he’s too nice.
As some commenter alluded, American foots the bill for the national defense of a good deal of Europe and East Asia. Whenever there’s a potboiler war or a natural disaster, we’re the first ones there with an effective helping hand.
If anyone is due deference, it’s the President of the United States of America — above all others. If anything excuses W’s behavior, it’s that the noblesse oblige displayed MIGHT be intended to defuse any resentment of that fact. How can you resent the superiority of a clown?
That people do says more about them than about the clown.
M
July 17, 2008 at 10:13 am
Why not just shut off the comments? I come here to read what you write, not the comments.
July 17, 2008 at 10:14 am
it`s same in all over the world , need a wise president , care to all citizen
July 17, 2008 at 10:26 am
Interesting point, Mark Alger. Let’s say I owed someone money. If they turned up at my house, pushed past me demanding to know where the beer is and acted like a boor, I swear they wouldn’t bounce ’til they’d hit the far side of the street from my front door, with either all their money or equivalent value good shoved someplace deeply uncomfortable.
Graceless behaviour is graceless behaviour. Regardless of whether the people who’re having their carpet metaphorically shat on or not are a lesser power.
You know, in a way I almost agree with you. If his behaviour stemmed from a clear presence of American predominance, and he was asserting that the Last Remaining Superpower would neither ask nor take quarter in running the planet… why, I could get down with that. If a Pax Americana was declared by a strong President, who went on to enforce it in a forthright, declarative manner – and few things speak as authoratatively as an Iowa-class BB’s main battery – then I could probably get behind that.
Unfortunately, I don’t for an instant believe that Bush even realises that he’s beeing a boorish clown. The person who’s meant to best represent America, our figurehead if you will (though goodness knows he’s done his best to get kingly powers for the Oval) is a buffoon. In public. Repeatedly.
Anyway…. Marko, I’ve said it over email, I’ll say it here. All my support, mate. Blog-reading just ain’t gonna be the same.
Out.
*skrik*
July 17, 2008 at 12:51 pm
I disagree.
And we all know that this whole thing was a “bash all capitalists” neo-communist love-fest.
I personally would have said, “Not only can all of you suck it, but when we drill for all this oil, you’re getting none of it. In fact, all these dumb papers i had to read with all this hippie bullshit written on them? I’m gonna burn them in the limo and toss them out the window on the ride to my big-ass plane. By the way, did i mention you can all suck it?”
Don’t even ask what i would do to the media. Let’s just say they better have quick reflexes.
July 17, 2008 at 2:15 pm
Folks keep in mind that diplomacy needs tact and W does not have it. . . he neither walks softly or carries a big stick. . . .
That being said also remember that W is not the best man for the job, he is the guy that got enough folks to agree he was the better of two bad choices for the job. . .. and we will do it all again in November. (or you could say the one the most folks thought would do the least damage in 4 years . . .)
I hope I live long enough to actually see a President that is worthy of the office. . .
July 17, 2008 at 5:18 pm
This is a very important point that Marko brings up, not only because what it says about Bush and other world leaders but rather what it says about ourselves. Many people often reminisce about decades past when our society had more class and dignity, we might not have had as much stuff as back then but it does seem that we have lost a lot of class, we lose quality of life by having a society where lacking in manners doesn’t seem to have negative consequences, whether it’s a student telling off his teacher, someone cutting you off on the highway, or someone demanding you pay for their govt dole. That lack of manners has far reaching consequences.
I remember my grandfather telling me about growing up during the Depression about how we were a very different people than we are now. Just being a regular ole schoolteacher carried with it a certain sense of responsibility to conduct oneself properly, now you don’t have to look further than MySpace to see teachers post dozens of pictures of themselves behaving with noting resembling dignity. We don’t have to go back that far in time to see professional athletes conducting themselves with decorum as opposed to the thug/gangbangers that prevail currently. There was also a time when people looked at the president as a role model, Bush himself even tried to tap into that expectation when saying that he ‘would restore the honor and dignity to the presidency’.
Even if we forgot that he’s a political figure for a minute and imagined that he’s just some guy at a business meeting we’d hopefully think he’s an unprofessional idiot that should probably be fired. You don’t go up to the president of another company and start giving them a back rub, so why is it ok to do that to a president of another country? Asking the Queen about how the black sheep in her family is not only rude but intentionally rude, anyone with half a brain and access to the celebrity magazines at the supermarket knows that it’s Prince Harry by a long shot, I’d imagine that someone with the CIA at their disposal might be able to figure that out as well.
Elected leaders are a reflection of the society they come from, if we want to live in a society where people are mannerful the price of that it is to not tolerate bad manners in others. This type of behavior isn’t limited to elected politicians, Hollywood actors, or models, if your eyes are open you don’t need to look very far to see people being rude guests.
Marko, I’m going to miss you and the tales from Munchkin Ranch, I wish you the best during your hiatus and hope to see you soon.
July 17, 2008 at 5:39 pm
squeaky wheel and others:
in the last several months i have visited mw’s blog, read his published work as well as his streamofconsciousness posts, offered comments and advice for what it’s worth, and a decent amount of monetary support for what that’s worth…probably as much as any commenter here…i wouldn’t have wasted my time if i were not impressed.
doesn’t mean he can’t be wrong, and in this case in my opinion and that of others he was way off base, and in his own words this post was “an embarrassment”…nothing wrong with that, i and everyone i know has been wrong many times, including in print.
but when someone tears you a new asshole in debate, taking all your toys and going home is going to earn you schoolyard invective every time, and if this exchange caused him to withdraw, well, he earned the epithet…sychophantic responses to every thought and post are valueless; i won’t offer them, and thankfully neither will vftp, i can attest to that myself (though in my case vftp was wrong and i was right…heh).
but if his time and responsibilities demand it, then of course family comes first and foremost and exchanging thoughts online is very expendable…just bad timing i guess.
marko has been impulsive before, then realized it and reversed himself…it is my hope tht this is another of those instances…i do hope so; i enjoy and respect his thoughts and his wonderful ability to communicate them very much, and i will miss him.
jtc
July 18, 2008 at 11:03 pm
“It’s just the internet” only works to make yourself feel better if you’re not throwing away real-life friendships over it.
July 19, 2008 at 12:06 am
Marko,
As the father of 7 rather rambunctious children ranging from 5 years old up to 14 almost 15, I need an escape at times. Mine is my little show and my blog. However when you feel that something is taking quality time away from your children I agree that it is time to take a break, and redefine what your priorities are. I hope that you will return to writing as I have found your writings to be insightful and thought provoking, and on a few issues you have forced me to re-examine some of my own deeply held beliefs and thought processes. I hope you will find time in your schedule with your children and writing projects to return to blogging, if and when you do I shall be a waiting reader.
Mark
July 19, 2008 at 9:17 am
pawnbroker, there’s a difference between debate and personal attacks.
July 19, 2008 at 9:14 pm
“pawnbroker, there’s a difference between debate and personal attacks”
and which would your statement to me be, there, jeff?
jtc
July 19, 2008 at 10:26 pm
“If obnoxious Uncle George foots the bills for all the freeloading hippies at the formal family events, then he can act towards them however the hell he pleases.”
Sorry, but I don’t care who you are, there’s no “excuse” for acting disrespectful towards others, not even if you’re “footing the bill.”
July 20, 2008 at 7:00 pm
Well, Pawnbroker, you called Marko a pussy. I’m not fond of that. In fact, I’d call those fighting words. Not worth lead, but I’ll risk a beating off you to take them back.
July 21, 2008 at 11:05 am
The trouble Mike is defining “disrespectful”. Some people consider it disrespectful to refer to them by their given name (as opposed to Mr. Surname), some don’t. That’s pretty minor, but it demonstrates that disrespectful is largely based on local culture and norms, which may or may not be relevant or reasonable to the rest of the people in the room. Most of us would be considered very undiplomatic in comparison to the well oiled words of the professionals, but when you get right down to it, I would much prefer the quite straight forward and honest folks here be dealing with foriegn nations than the folks who brough us “appeasement”.
I agree with Marko that it is nice to be polite, and humbly submit that perhaps the news media is not the best place to get information on the relative politeness of various politicians. However, I do think that there are times and places were “polite” can be implied to mean “assenting” and G8 conferences about global climate crisise are not the sorts of things we should even be showing up to, no matter how politely.
July 21, 2008 at 11:34 am
I think you can be respectful without offering appeasement and abandoning your principles.
July 21, 2008 at 7:30 pm
markhb, have you been drinking and writing again? i think mw understood the humor and irony intended in my remarks and in any case has reconsidered his rash decision.
i expected some, through ignorance and immaturity, to reflexively come to marko’s “defense”, but your reference to “lead” reveals a dangerous thought process that would get you banned and blackballed at most sites related to firearms…even your goofy threat of an asswhuppin’ is an insult to marko and infers that he is incapable of defending his position, and is especially absurd given mw’s recent admonishment that “it’s only the internet folks”…
you should be ashamed of yourself, markhb…i would have expected better from you.
jtc
July 22, 2008 at 3:48 am
Actually, yeah I did have a pretty good drink on when I wrote that, hence the gonzo thought process of thinking “gun blog – better make sure everyone knows I’m not about to grab a weapon and avenge my buddy’s honour”. Not my finest hour that post. Apologies to all concerned.
On the whole it’s kind of ironic calling someone a pussy over the internet, anyway.
July 22, 2008 at 6:38 am
Double irony score – I made an embarrassment of myself in a thread about someone being an embarrassment. That’s it, time to lay off the booze for a couple months.
*sigh*
July 22, 2008 at 9:51 am
no harm, markhb:
i understood your intent to was virtual and not literal, but it is good that now others will know as well…and it is good too that you now understand that the irony and humor you mention was the intent of my own comments.
can you imagine any sane person calling the young man who hosts this blog, and from whose mind and pen has flowed some of the most lovely word construct i’ve seen, and more importantly some of the best insight into what it means to be free, (and i’m guessing pretty capablity in hand-to-hand), a “pussy” in any literal sense?
jtc
July 22, 2008 at 9:56 am
um, that would be “pretty good capability”…don’t want to be accused of any more feminine/diminutive insults…jtc